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Seasons Greetings and Happy New Year 2020-Too.

IS RFN a tag that I could use or is it considered “reserved” (used by genealogy program itself, not necessarily kiwitrees)? How does it differ from REFN? (Not re-opening this battle, just can’t find explanation that answers this question)

RFN	REC_FILE_NUMBER	A permanent number assigned to a record that uniquely identifies it within a known file.
REFN	REFERENCE	A description or number used to identify an item for filing, storage, or other reference purposes.

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Technically you could use it in any way you wish. There is nothing in kiwitrees code to prevent it, nor would displaying it cause any problems. BUT…. before you choose to, there are things about both it’s history and future you should be aware of.

The difference between RFN and REFN, is in their descriptors. RFN importantly includes the phrase “within a known file“. You should ask your self what such a file might be. The LDS rarely put such phrases into GEDCOM without a reason, and equally rarely left it open for you to interpret as you like! In this case, the history is vague. There is no definition of a, or any, “known files” to link the RFN to. Nor is there any process or method for creating and maintaining such a thing in GEDCOM. It is generally accepted that LDS meant to use it similarly to Sources and Source citations, connected to each other and each with their own structure. But the “files” part of RFN was never developed. Perhaps related to the issue that GEDCOM 5.5.1 (as used by kiwitrees and most other software) was from creation in 1995 until late 2019 described by LDS as “draft”! It is no longer draft, RFN is still there, but still with no definition of “known files”. IMHO they would anyway most likely have been LDS-specific documents.

So, given that history, what of the future? For RFN that seems to be fairly certain. In early versions of GEDCOM 5.5.2 (never actually adopted) and later GEDCOM 5.6 (only rarely adopted and never officially), RFN was completely removed.

The next official version of GEDCOM is currently being developed (ver 7), led again by LDS. This version also completely removes RFN. REFN and it’s description remains untouched.

IF GEDCOM 7 does becomes the new standard (and there are many who question whether this will happen), then kiwitrees will follow. It is entirely possible then that any RFN tags will be deleted, albeit with some advance warning, requiring you to manually replace them.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

thanks, that really helps.

in Reunion (offline genealogy loose Gedcom 5.5.1) I can “group records” with an identifying flag. Added to that is option for colour tags as they call them. Not GEDCOM of course. Trying to find similar method within GEDCOM.

Say for example, some of the records in kiwitrees shows the relationship after the 1 NAME. Something that would let me easily use “facts and events” report to find them all. (This is but one of the groups, others aren’t as obvious.) I thought of RFN because I had a number I could use. Deprecating the tag wasn’t even on my mind, that’s a reason in itself I’d not want to use.

Actually did try google search for GEDCOM 7.x tags but only came up with Family Search outline. One site did seem to list them but no highlight of new 7.0 or deprecated 5.5.1 tags.

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macalter wrote:

Actually did try google search for GEDCOM 7.x tags but only came up with Family Search outline. One site did seem to list them but no highlight of new 7.0 or deprecated 5.5.1 tags.

The only attempt I’ve seen to explain this very complex series of changes is this one: https://blog-en.coret.org/2021/02/gedcom-grammars-5-5-1-vs-7-0-rc.html

Not sure if you found that one. But it’s not just a simple matter of adding / changing / deleting tags. Far from it. The whole structure is changing. It’s also open to public input, as well as one or more “committees” debating the pros and cons of each change being proposed. All the ingredients for a long drawn-out talk-fest. I’m not optimistic about it’s future!

But if you search for “RFN” on the page it’s clearly (in multiple places) classed as “5.5.1 construct not available in 7.0”.
If you do the same search for “REFN”, it is also classed the same in every current use, but then appears as “New construct in 7.0” under a new grouping called IDENTIFIER_STRUCTURE.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

Not sure the link I found but same gobbly-gook. I wanted simple table that I’ve reerred to for 5.5.1 (the copy/paste I used doesn’t quite reflect but it’s basically a table).

Any suggestions for my project?

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macalter wrote:

Not sure the link I found but same gobbly-gook. I wanted simple table that I’ve reerred to for 5.5.1 (the copy/paste I used doesn’t quite reflect but it’s basically a table).

You won’t find it. As I said, it’s WAY too complex to be summarised in a simple one-to-one table.The site I linked to is as close as you’ll get.

macalter wrote:

Any suggestions for my project?

Not really. Nothing in GEDCOM is designed to do that. Software like Reunion does it totally outside of GEDCOM, so it’s non-transferrable. Kiwitrees could do it, but in my list of priorities it would be sometime around 2050!!

I have seen, in Ancestry trees, people using different images replacing the “highlighted” images in kiwitrees. They either use simple colour blocks as an image, or sometimes different heraldic family emblems. Biggest advantage is that they can appear on all the charts, as well as INDI pages etc..

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

Not an idea I’d even have you consider! Looking at Reunion GEDCOM is akin to looking at an HTML page built using something like Front Page/Dreamweaver. Output was HTML, just not to standard of Strict.

The image idea is interesting. But wouldn’t be searchable. Will come up with some ideas as I plough through the cleanup.

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