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I was just taking a quick look at kiwitrees-Nova. None of the user/passwords looked so only as visitor.

Liked the addition of the eye to view password.

Did a Individual List and see there is an entire column “Surname” empty but entire name is under Given Name. Could there not be a checkbox or something to sort by sort surname or given name?

For view ability, I had to bump up the font size quite a bit and almost have nose on screen.

Looked at the Anne Darwin’s page and would like to see alternating colours for line entries (birth, marriage, death, etc). Bit more compact for length as some of my pages are quite long in detail.

“Given names” is one phrase but on 2 lines making it look like “names” has no data. to prevent the wrap, the browser window must be quite wide. Wider than I ever keep it as I use multiple browsers and apps while editing.

Also notice reverse appearance: kiwitrees is
Name
Given names
Surname

but -Nova is
Name
Surname
Given names

Notice there was “new addition” that I remember from Webtrees “Extra Information”. Is the “Internal reference” my beloved Xref number? Is there option to have part of main record?

----- [updated: 31Aug2023]

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Going back to my own site, think instead of the grey, maybe the very light “beige-brown” colour from COLORS > Coffee & Cream or Belgium Chocolate which is a nice, soft colour and easier on the eyes than the grey or even white. I find that as background needn’t be alternating.

Sizing option for the accessibility standard where there’s the AAAA (in different sizing) in upper corner (usually right) would help those of us with sight problems. Also, the weight of the font. The image below from my Royals is easier to read than the one from the Demo site.

As I see all those files inside the download of kiwitrees, I do marvel at how you put it all together!

NAME
Currently, a page has two incidences of NAME: one in the banner with gender, birth/death, age and one under it either standalone or with given names/surnames etc. kiwitrees-Nova has 3

Must admit, I do marvel how you go through all those files in a download to produce kiwitrees/ kiwitrees-nova

----- [updated: 31Aug2023]

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Thanks for taking the time to look at these things. All feedback is welcome.

Just some brief comments on your main points:

Did a Individual List and see there is an entire column “Surname” empty but entire name is under Given Name. Could there not be a checkbox or something to sort by sort surname or given name?

Although it may look slightly different this is identical to the behaviour in kiwitrees. Click on the header “Given names” to sort by those,. Click on the header “Surnames” to sort by those.

For view ability, I had to bump up the font size quite a bit and almost have nose on screen.

Fonts in kiwitrees-nova are entirely dictated by the base font set in your browser. By default that is usually 16px. Most text is therefore 16px, with headers progressively larger, and some less important details slightly smaller. This is done by using relative sizing units (rem) instead of fixed px.

Looked at the Anne Darwin’s page and would like to see alternating colours for line entries (birth, marriage, death, etc).

Bit more compact for length as some of my pages are quite long in detail.

Going back to my own site, think instead of the grey, maybe the very light “beige-brown” colour from COLORS > Coffee & Cream or Belgium Chocolate which is a nice, soft colour and easier on the eyes than the grey or even white. I find that as background needn’t be alternating.

No, to all three of those I’m afraid. The aim with this development includes clean, uncluttered presentation, with careful matched colour schemes of minimal number of basic colours. There are however two other themes in development, and perhaps more might be possible after the initial public release. Also, managing customisations is much simpler in nova. All custom files (styles, header, etc can be created and edited directly in the administration area.

“Given names” is one phrase but on 2 lines making it look like “names” has no data. to prevent the wrap, the browser window must be quite wide. Wider than I ever keep it as I use multiple browsers and apps while editing.

I feel it is more important that the names themselves have maximum space, not those labels. So compromise is necessary on some screen sizes. You should find that a very small adjustment to the width of your screen will prevent the label wrapping.

Also notice reverse appearance: kiwitrees is Name Given names Surname
but -Nova is Name Surname Given names

Yes. Is that a comment or a problem?

Sizing option for the accessibility standard where there’s the AAAA (in different sizing) in upper corner (usually right) would help those of us with sight problems. Also, the weight of the font. The image below from my Royals is easier to read than the one from the Demo site.

The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) organisation recommend that sites do not specify a basic font size, but instead uses relative sizing based on the browser font setting. That is what nova does. They no longer recommend the AAA option as modern bowsers are supposed to have rendered it obsolete. See also comments above about easier customisation.

Currently, a page has two incidences of NAME: one in the banner with gender, birth/death, age and one under it either standalone or with given names/surnames etc. kiwitrees-Nova has 3

You are right, 3 is too many.
No. 1 in nova is (I think) an improvement in both legibility and location.
No. 2 is necessary as it is a trigger to open/close the name editing area. This becomes very apparent when you have multiple names for a single individual. Note, in such cases, No. 1 will always be the “primary” name.
No. 3 is no longer relevant, and has been removed, but not yet uploaded to the demo site. (see attached screenshot).
Remember also that as well as Given names and Surnames, that area can also display suffixes, prefixes, notes, sources etc.

Notice there was “new addition” that I remember from Webtrees “Extra Information”. Is the “Internal reference” my beloved Xref number? Is there option to have part of main record?

Nothing new about that feature. It’s been a part of kiwitrees since day 1. You just need to enable it and set access level and position in the sidebar, like any other module.
Yes, “Internal reference” is the xref number. It is not currently in the main record. But nova will have two (optional) alternative tabs to “Facts and events”. These are “Events”, which you will see is already there on the demo site, and “Attributes”. “Events” will, as the name implies, only have dated events listed, in date order. In other words a “timeline” of the individuals’ life. The “Attributes” tab will display all the undated facts, like ID numbers, hair color, and many other items defined under “attributes” in the GEDCOM spec. I will probably include the xref there too. BUT, I will still always stress that it must not be used as a permanent reference to link to an individual or family. It is a machine-ID only, and can be changed without notification in many ways.

Thanks again for your feedback. I hope my response isn’t too negative. Nova is still a long way from finished, but some things are pretty firm and I will be reluctant to change them in the short term.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

First, as I couldn’t access site except as visitor, didn’t get to play and see what more details would look like.

<<Although it may look slightly different this is identical to the behaviour in kiwitrees. Click on the header “Given names” to sort by those,. Click on the header “Surnames” to sort by those.>>
It seemed more noticeable in K-N, and column wider. The name presents as NAME but offers GIVN and SURN for sorting purposes. It’s not really 2 columns Hence suggestion of using NAME with a radio button option for sort of GIVN or SURN.

<<No, to all three of those I’m afraid. The aim with this development includes clean, uncluttered presentation, with careful matched colour schemes of minimal number of basic colours. There are however two other themes in development, and perhaps more might be possible after the initial public release. Also, managing customisations is much simpler in nova. All custom files (styles, header, etc can be created and edited directly in the administration area.>>

My example of Coffee & Cream wasn’t so much the shade as its use over all grey. The shade can be matched your K-N theme. Even possibly lighter shade of grey to contrast the black type better. But will have to see the alternate Themes you produce and test those. The combo of font weight and the grey makes screen harder to see. And spending HOURS on my site, that’s important.

<<Also notice reverse appearance: kiwitrees is Name Given names Surname
but -Nova is Name Surname Given names>>

Yes, would prefer Given names and surname as it would be written, current meth. And appears in lists and/or reports.

<<The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) organisation recommend that sites do not specify a basic font size, but instead uses relative sizing based on the browser font setting. That is what nova does. They no longer recommend the AAA option as modern bowsers are supposed to have rendered it obsolete. See also comments above about easier customisation.>>

This is the biggest concern for me. My browser base font setting is already quite large but doesn’t override theme. I’ve not seen reason for the obsoletion of the AAAA as browsers do a lousy job of readability. It’s used on sites such as that for Cdn National Institute for the Blind still. To me, when I see that included, I know that I don’t have to spend time setting site 1 in tab 1, adjusting site 2 in tab 2 that is distorted because of using browser font increase over the site-specific AAAA.
Just did quick look at W3C and 1.14.4 summarizes what I would like to be able to do:
“1.4.4 Resize text: Except for captions and images of text, text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 percent without loss of content or functionality. (Level AA)”
Somewhat ironic is the item below 1.4.4 is contrast (1.4.6) which gives 7:1. I don’t know the standard at all but assume this relates to my comment of the black font, lightweight,
on grey background being hard to read.
Maybe it means future consideration for a theme meant for those of us with vision difficulties. Hey, I sent email with font size 24 (that used by CNIB).

<<No. 1 in nova is (I think) an improvement in both legibility and location.
No. 2 is necessary as it is a trigger to open/close the name editing area. This becomes very apparent when you have multiple names for a single individual. Note, in such cases, No. 1 will always be the “primary” name.
No. 3 is no longer relevant, and has been removed, but not yet uploaded to the demo site. (see attached screenshot).>>

Will try again at some point and see the difference. The snap you included of Sir Edward is fuller which I couldn’t replicate w/o access. Want to see what it looks like with #3 removed and still in “reverse” order (Surname, Given names).

<<Nothing new about that feature. It’s been a part of kiwitrees since day 1. You just need to enable it and set access level and position in the sidebar, like any other module.
Yes, “Internal reference” is the xref number. It is not currently in the main record. >>

Included since day 1 == NEVER knew 🙂 guess never looked either as I like them within body. The term I use as “Xref number” is the line 0 of every record, sequential numbering of records. I use in body, I use in reports (added in Admin panel), I use in numbering images. ***Vital*** to me. I know if I knew how to manipulate the SQL tables the numbers could be reused but are otherwise unique. To me, that’s my Social Insurance/Security Number. But so long as the option is there, not trying to open the subject further.
=============
One thing I did when I knew my cousin was accessing my site to provide more details, was switch to Xena as it had buttons labelled and thought that would be of help to her. Would be nice if one theme had that option of text/icon rather than just one or the other. (I am only referring to menu items, not the other options in Xena) I know the buttons in Colours but I’m on my site way too often. She’s only accessing occasionally.

Your comments aren’t negative, I was concerned my feedback was. This is probably only the second time I looked at what you’ve been up to and figure it’s better to have the discussion at this stage that after full release.

----- [updated: 31Aug2023]

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Your comments aren’t negative, I was concerned my feedback was.

Definitely not. But they are heavily influenced by the very poor example the GEDCOM file used in the demo gives. It has very incomplete content. The Edward Heath image I attached earlier, for example, is from my own personal tree (used for development purposes), so having login access wouldn’t make much difference. There is no private data, so most pages won’t look any different. I have been thinking for a while that I should replace that file. Perhaps I will export a “privatised” version of my own tree and load that instead for a more “real-life” experience.

Yes, would prefer Given names and surname as it would be written, current meth. And appears in lists and/or reports.

You are right – and there wasn’t any particular reason for the change (as in “I don’t actually remember changing it!!“) I’ll change it back.

The term I use as “Xref number” is the line 0 of every record, sequential numbering of records. I use in body, I use in reports (added in Admin panel), I use in numbering images. ***Vital*** to me.

That’s fine. You’re choice. But take care if you ever export to other software and try re-importing to kiwitrees. Not all software retains the same IDs. Also never try using the “Merge trees” feature of kiwitrees. That requires that duplicate IDs (between the two trees) are changed to remove the duplication. Note also that in webtrees latest versions Greg has dropped the I, F, S, N, M prefixes for these IDs and universally replaced them all with an X prefix! But be assured I have no intention of doing the same!

One thing I did when I knew my cousin was accessing my site to provide more details, was switch to Xena as it had buttons labelled and thought that would be of help to her. Would be nice if one theme had that option of text/icon rather than just one or the other. (I am only referring to menu items, not the other options in Xena)

At present all the themes use both buttons and labels in the main menu.

Maybe it means future consideration for a theme meant for those of us with vision difficulties.

Actually a theme wouldn’t really work, as they are all (in kiwitrees) set per tree, so visitors would get the same settings as you.
But it does trigger another idea. How about a set of user options under a general term of “Accessibility settings”?
From your comments, they might include an adjustment to base font size; perhaps a contrast adjustment, That sort of thing anyway. I know my iPhone has something similar, so perhaps I needed to see how Apple handle it.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

macalter wrote:

The snap you included of Sir Edward is fuller which I couldn’t replicate w/o access. Want to see what it looks like with #3 removed and still in “reverse” order (Surname, Given names).

I’ve just been looking at the code for this, becasue (again) I don’t actually remember changing it. The answer is very simple. There is no specific order. They are displayed in the order they are stored in the GEDCOM data.

The “Darwin” tree used in the demo (for both kiwitrees and kiwitrees-nova) came to me with the in the order:
1 NAME
2 SURN
2 GIVN.

But other software, including any people added first in kiwitrees, will be in the order:
1 NAME
2 GIVN
2 SURN

As per standard GEDCOM practice, when tags of the same level are displayed consecutively, the order is as per the data stored.

My own tree displays in the “normal” order you are used, as you can see in the Edward Heath image I attached earlier. So no change required there, I think.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info