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Just heard from the user that she has verified that in Safari > Preferences > Security “enable javascript” IS INDEED ticked!! So restarting Safari she still has the same problem. You have demonstrated pretty conclusively that the problem is due to javascript not functioning, so if it is ‘enabled’ in the browser I assume that her Java installation itself is suspect and that I should tell her to re-install Java. Do you agree or could there be another explanation?

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14

Don’t confuse “java” with “JavaScript”. They are not connected in any way. Java is not used in any part of kiwitrees.

I think she will need to talk to a MAC expert. There is absolutely no doubt this is a user / browser issue. It is unlikely you will be able to help any further.

Just to be sure get her to send you a screen dump of the security settings. She might also be confusing java with JavaScript.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

Oh! Thanks for clarifying Nigel. She definitely refers to the item ‘Activer javascript’ (she has a French installation) as being ticked so, unlike me, I don’t think she’s confusing Java and javascript. I’ll tell her to seek out her local Mac expert as you suggest.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14

I hesitate to come back again on this issue, as I feel confident that, as you have shown, Nigel, the problem experienced by the user must be somehow associated with her specific set-up. To this end, she plans to present the problem to her local Mac expert when he returns from a few days away.

HOWEVER, I am puzzled by the something she has told me in her latest e-mail, and I thought I should share it with you. I had explained to her that the problem was clearly associated with javascript and that it appeared that, although her browser setting indicated that javascript was enabled, something was seemingly preventing javascript from functioning as it should when she accessed my website. But to convince her that it really was not specific to my website but would probably apply to all websites that used javascript, I pointed her to two other sites which have connections to mine and to which I provide links from my Home Page. Both sites use webtrees. Before suggesting she access these two sites, I first checked them from my PC with javascript disabled in Chrome. Sure enough, both presented the same problem (‘the ever-turning wheels’ on blocks using javascript and therefore failing to open).

Her first response to me last night was that one of those sites (the ‘HARVEY’ site) produced the same problem she had described on my site, but that the other one (the ‘CUMBERLAND’ site) functioned perfectly normally. This morning she followed up with another report, telling me, I quote:

{i’ve just tried the Harvey Family Tree again and I find that, if I wait – less than a minute – it works. The Cumberland website works immediately but yours refuses to perform however long I wait.}

So it would appear that javascript does not simply have to be enabled for the blocks to load successfully but it also has to have a certain level of resource that is presumably lacking on this user’s system, and that the resource demands of the blocks on my site would appear to be greater than those on the other two sites. The ‘problem’ blocks on all three sites are Slide Show, Statistics, On This Day and Up Coming Events; in addition, on my site, the Changes in the Last Seven Days block also fails to load correctly. Comparing the three sites, the ‘CUMBERLAND’ site – the one on which the problem does not arise, is the smallest, having 8,098 individuals, 13,846 events and 142 media items; the ‘HARVEY’ site (which takes its time but finally gets there) is the largest in terms of individuals (21,552) and events (39,853) but only has 120 media items. My site has 15,120 individuals, 38, 644 events and 5678 media items (the majority jpeg files between 100K and 500K, but also a good many PDF files and a number of heavier-weight audio and video files). It would appear that the significanty larger media presence on my site is somehow indirectly responsible. And although I can imagine that having an impact on Slide Show and Statistics, I can see no obvious reason why it should prevent say ‘Changes in the last seven days’ (VERY few items) from loading correctly. It seems as though ALL of the blocks which use javascript are prevented from loading correctly if any one of them is blocked by some resource constraint (or probably more likely that they are handled sequentially and one that is blocked holds up all the others??).

Anyway, I thought I should pass all this on for completeness. If the extra information suggests to you any obvious action she could take to solve the problem, I’d appreciate your input Nigel. Otherwise I’ll leave it to her to try to resolve with her Mac guru and report their findings back here.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14

clandav wrote:

HOWEVER, I am puzzled by the something she has told me in her latest e-mail, and I thought I should share it with you.

Never be puzzled by something a user has told you until you have reproduced it yourself. 🙂

I see that you say “… first checked them from my PC with javascript disabled in Chrome. Sure enough, both presented the same problem (‘the ever-turning wheels’ on blocks using javascript and therefore failing to open).” That’s excellent, but did you also, as she describes, try waiting for for some time. Did you test that yourself?

I have just done so. In fact I waited (while I did other things) for 30 minutes. Still after that time your site and the other two failed to display only the javascript enabled blocks (js was disabled from my browser at the time). So her exact problem cannot be reproduced on any browser other than hers. That rules out all the other issues you raise.

But I’m not surprised. The way these blocks, and many other parts of the site (lie the INDI lists she also refers to) use javascript is very simple. If you have javascript those things will display. If you don’t the wheels will just continue to spin. Size of available resources.is irrelevant. The “spinning wheel” is nothing clever, just a simple litle animated gif image. It is not in any way connected to the process of loading the data. The data is prepared in the background, and will in fact have completed “loading” in the normal time. But it cannot be seen because there is a css class of “visibility: hidden” set on its html container by default, and the wheel displayed instead. Once the data is loaded javascript is used to remove the “hidden” class and hide the wheel.
So it’s a very simple process, and can ONLY be disrupted by JavaScript failing to function due to being disabled or (quite rare) corruption at the browser.

However, her report back will help her MAC expert to diagnose the problem. I can only guess, but I think he will just remove and reinstall her browser. The symptoms she gives – javascript enabled but not functioning correctly / functioning in an intermittent manner, suggest a damaged browser installation.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

Once the data is loaded javascript is used to remove the “hidden” class and hide the wheel. So it’s a very simple process, and can ONLY be disrupted by JavaScript failing to function due to being disabled or (quite rare) corruption at the browser.

Point taken. But I was assuming that, as she had javascript enabled in her browser and as it clearly worked for some of the sites, the problem could be caused by the blocks not actually loading, hence my guess that this may be due to some resource constraint in her system.

Anyway, I’ll leave it to her Mac guru to sort out the problem for her and not take up any more time and space here. I’ll report back here if the findings seem to be of potential interest to others. Thanks Nigel for sticking with it thus far even though it is clearly not a kiwitrees problem.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14

I’ve been following this thread, as a Mac user. I’m quite puzzled why a user would even turn off JAVASCRIPT in their browser. Not to be confused with Java. In fact, neither are usually known to most users in my years of experience.

Under the Safari Develop menu, I disabled Javascript and loaded <http://www.clan-davies.org/webtrees/&gt;. The upper right block of the home page does not load. (On this Day)

As soon as I re-enabled Javascript, it loaded instantly.

I’ve used Mac for almost 30 years and have never had reason to disable Javascript.

----- [updated: 31Dec2022] MacOS: 10.15.7  (Catalina) Safari   14.1.2;  Firefox 108.0.1 (64-bit);  108.0.1462.54 (Official build) (x86_64)

Alter-Drukarsh connections | The Garelick: 3.3.11b - PHP 8.0 FastCGI - mySQL 8.

I completely agree. But she has confirmed that javascript is enabled in her settings, and she has also reported a couple of instance where javascript-enabled functions have worked after sometime. So my conclusion is that the browser is “damaged” in some way, causing inconsistent javascript actions. I can’t imagine what else could cause it. I suspect once she is able to access someone who can help her physically they will remove and re-install the browser.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

Note – Safari is part of the OS. It’s not standalone so “re-install” means the OS. Given she’s not at current OS, that she needs to have access to the OS version. Or upgrade . (Neither am I but am beyond hers.)

Also, did she try your site using Mac Firefox?

----- [updated: 31Dec2022] MacOS: 10.15.7  (Catalina) Safari   14.1.2;  Firefox 108.0.1 (64-bit);  108.0.1462.54 (Official build) (x86_64)

Alter-Drukarsh connections | The Garelick: 3.3.11b - PHP 8.0 FastCGI - mySQL 8.

Also, did she try your site using Mac Firefox?

Thanks for the suggestion. She said she “only had Safari”. I’ve suggested she ask her Mac expert to try using Firefox as part of the problem diagnosis. Will keep you informed.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14