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The same cousin, who has edit rights, has now tried to start adding DNA connection entries and a couple of small problems have arisen:
1. He said he had been unable to add source, so I took a look at the line he had entered, clicked on the edit symbol, and was presented with the edit screen – but without the bottom lines – i.e no ‘Note’ block and more importantly no ‘save’ and ‘cancel’ buttons, so I couldn’t add source or anything else either. Instead, I decided to add the line again, and to delete the original line. New line added OK but Delete not accepted.
2. The first DNA connection entry he added was for his mother. ‘Relationship’ was correctly deduced as ‘mother’ but surprised to see ‘No Common Ancestor Found’ See:https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/individual.php?pid=I10721
3. I was surprised that I was not notified of the change he had made, nor was there the usual ‘pending changes’ notification – is this intentional?

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

(Note: topic split from original location as these are separate issues from that general discussion.)

The lack of buttons, etc., was caused by the incorrect entry in the source field. He entered “23andme” as a text item, rather than letting the autocomplete feature give him the existing source name and id. In his first (no longer visible) attempt he did the same for the Person’s name field (“Wendy” entered).

I will need to do some more work on trapping such issues, but in the short term can you explain the use of “autocomplete”?

Regarding the “closest ancestor” for a Mother/child relationship – what would you expect to see? There is, in fact, no “common” ancestor between them. The first level at which a common ancestor exists would be siblings, who share common parents. Do you know (or perhaps can find out from your user) what 23andMe show in this case?

Regarding “change” notification – they only apply to GEDCOM data (i.e. family tree entries stored in a GEDCOM file), as it uses the GEDCOM CHAN tag. DNA data is not part of the GEDCOM structure. As stated a note in some of the introductory comments (change list, newsletter etc) this is important to understand, as it means the DNA data entered will NOT be transferred or saved in any GEDCOM file created from your site. However, I do see the logic of wanting a “change notification”, so I will see if it is possible to add something for a future release. (No promises though 🙂 )

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

I will need to do some more work on trapping such issues, but in the short term can you explain the use of “autocomplete”?

Will do. I’m surprised he couldn’t work it out for himslf – he’s spent the last 15 years working for Google and Apple – perhaps that’s the reason ! I have noticed in the past that if I make the same mistake in entering a source in any Facts & Events item, my text appears in red as an unreferenced source. This would be the ideal way to handle it if possible.

Regarding the “closest ancestor” for a Mother/child relationship – what would you expect to see?

Surely the mother’s father (who is the child’s grandfather) is the first of their many shared ancestors?

Regarding “change” notification – I do see the logic of wanting a “change notification”

Is this the only case where changes to the database/tables (albeit not the GEDCOM itself) could be made by someone with edit authority without my being notified, or are there others? I have always been keen to have the last word on changes to ensure the integrity and overall accuracy of the data.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14

clandav wrote:

I have noticed in the past that if I make the same mistake in entering a source in any Facts & Events item, my text appears in red as an unreferenced source. This would be the ideal way to handle it if possible.

Yes, that is my thought too. It’s complicated because the standard code is all GEDCOM-based, so can’t be used directly. But I’m sure I can “dummy” a matching alternative. I’ll upload a copy to your site when I have it, so you can test.

clandav wrote:

Surely the mother’s father (who is the child’s grandfather) is the first of their many shared ancestors?

Arguably, perhaps. But all the (very complex) algorithms that I’ve seen for “closest common ancestor” assume a starting point of a side-ways relationship, working upwards to a meeting point. It’s not an area I plan on going any deeper into than I have to! But rather than the current default of “No common ancestor found” I should be able to default mother (father, parent) to child relationships to either “Not applicable”, or perhaps just leave it blank.

clandav wrote:

Is this the only case where changes to the database/tables (albeit not the GEDCOM itself) could be made by someone with edit authority without my being notified, or are there others? I have always been keen to have the last word on changes to ensure the integrity and overall accuracy of the data.

Almost but not completely. The “Stories” module is partially the same. Only admins can create new stories, but editors can edit them. That is not GEDCOM data either, so cannot use the normal change process.
I doubt I can include the “approval” process. That’s just too complex to convert to this sort of use. It is linked to the changes log in the database, the Changes report in Admin, messaging to managers and / or admins, etc… But a notification to admins that something has been changed on the database, and by who should be possible. This will not be a quick fix though.
Although I don’t recall this ever being discussed before, I think the unspoken assumption has been that the primary need was to ensure the integrity of the family history (i.e. GEDCOM) data, not the site as a whole.

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

In case you are interested, this is the background for the algorithm kiwitrees uses to compute “common ancestors”:

Calculation of the Coefficient of Relationship

Nigel
My personal kiwitrees site is www.our-families.info

I’m sure I can “dummy” a matching alternative. I’ll upload a copy to your site when I have it, so you can test.

That would be great if you csn msnsge it without too much trouble Nigel – many thanks.

But rather than the current default of “No common ancestor found” I should be able to default mother (father, parent) to child relationships to either “Not applicable”, or perhaps just leave it blank.

I thinlk blank would be the best solution, if that can be acgieved fairly easily. If not, it’s clearly not a major issue if it stays as it is.

Although I don’t recall this ever being discussed before, I think the unspoken assumption has been that the primary need was to ensure the integrity of the family history (i.e. GEDCOM) data, not the site as a whole.

You’re right – I fully agree and I’m sorry I raised this before thinking it through fully. I know I shall have no difficulty, on what will be the very few occasions when either stories or DNA Connections are being updated by others, to control it through dialogue with the few users with editor rights, ensuring that they tell me when they have made changes in these areas so, at least for me, please don’t spend any more time on thinking about this.

Ron in France Website: https://clan-davies.kiwitrees.net/ kiwitrees 3.3.11; PHP 8.0.14